matt2 - I'll ask first q: John, what snake ya most wanna find now in T.P.?
JohnOH - these days, almost anything is welcome. severe 6 year drought in much of the area has really cut down on populations
JohnOH - my goal for this year is a male mexican hognose

bikeburner - what area is your best hunting spot
JohnOH - for those who don't know the area, the Trans-Pecos is that region "across the Pecos River", mainly Val Verde and Terrell Counties
JohnOH - hmm, depends on what you are looking for, and what conditions are. it varies, but most of the area has the same 40-50 species available\
JohnOH - of snakes, that is. also lots of lizards, amphibs, some turtles

EricW - Would I run into law enforcement out in T.P. often?
JohnOH - depends on the area, eric. the Bend area, particularly river road, seems to get patrolled regularly during herping season
JohnOH - Langtry area west through Sanderson also has an energetic game warden
JohnOH - but Hwy 277 is usually OK unless herpers become too obvious and the locals make a call

matt2 -my turn: John ya found any T.P. coppers out there
JohnOH - yes, matt, in some areas they are more common than others. they also have a basic habitat of rocky hillside with brush in front and permanent or semi-permanent water available
JohnOH - they are found in the davis mts and in the big bend, but Terrell county and langtry seem to be areas where they are more commonly seen

bikeburner - John whats the laws now
JohnOH - oh, Juno road north of bakers crossing is also good for them
bikeburner - hunting lic etc
JohnOH - laws are the same, burner, but being interpereted differently. they now feel that any road cruising/spotlighting is illegal
JohnOH - you are still required to have a license, but just the standard hunting license
bikeburner - what about the limit lic
JohnOH - the non-game dept. lost its head to a transfer, really seems to be going nowhere
JohnOH - no limits

Gail16 - John, Do you find wild texas rat snakes alot? do you find them mostly to all be argessive?
EricW - didn't know it came to me so fast :)
JohnOH - gail, Texas ratsnakes don't occur in the Trans Pecos region, but I do find them elsewhere, and yes, they are personality deficient snakes
Gail16 - ok.. thanks
JohnOH - the ratsnakes found in the trans pecos region are subocularis, emoryi and bairdi, all nice species with the occasional exception of emoryi

ratrace - John thanks for being here tonight!! Where is the best location, time of the day and time of year is the best time to look for grey bands???? and second question if you dont mind. How do they do in captivity, wild caught that is???
JohnOH - ratso, mid may through early July is the period, with June the best in most areas. in the higher elevations july and august can be good
JohnOH - they are totally nocturnal, and prefer certain conditions. they usually do very well in captivity
JohnOH - sometimes a younger one can be a problem, but that is not common
JohnOH - they can be found occasionally in April, but it is always males
ratrace - thanks john

matt2 -my turn, John, do ya think they are really gonna be strict this year re: spotlights
JohnOH - and the adults seem to disappear in early september, and the latest I've found any was ajuvenile on Oct. first
JohnOH - I don't know, matt, but they probably will, at least in some areas. in Iraan, don't even try, the local cops will stop you
JohnOH - and I don't bother spotlighting on the river road - too dangerous
JohnOH - and foolish
JohnOH - makes you too obvious
matt2 -followup q: if they do stop ya and you have permits etc and no firearms, can they still make a legal issue of it and be right

bikeburner - wher are you planning on going this year
JohnOH - I just ask them if they are going to write me a ticket. they always say "no" if they haven't seen you picking up a herp, so I say "goodbye" and keep going
JohnOH - However, the big bend has a JP which will find you guilty, regardless of the righteousness of the ticket
matt2 -ok, bike, bike had a q
JohnOH - and you will then have to appeal
JohnOH - ok

bikeburner - what area are you going to hunt first when the season starts
JohnOH - I don't know, eddy. Van Horn early may for kennerlyi, probably val verde later in the month
JohnOH - I don't go to the river road much these days - nothing there I really need, too far, too expensive, too patrolled.
JohnOH - feel free to ask questions about specific species

EricW - What is the best course of action if herping out west and were to experience a venomous bite? My cell phone doesn't get service out there. And I think Crystall is gone
JohnOH - don't get bitten, don't check into the Alpine hospital unless you feel your life is in serious danger

Gail16 - when did u catch your first reptile out there, and what was it?
JohnOH - aside from a large atrox or a scutulatus, not much there to do serious damage
JohnOH - I started driving that area in 1972, had no idea what I was doing, what herps were there, never saw any other herpers. I drove 55,000 miles my first summer
JohnOH - in 1975 I found my first alterna west of langtry (light phase adult blairs morph female) on the shoulder of the road, about to eat an earless lizard
JohnOH - I was hooked after that
Gail16 - ok.. thanks
JohnOH - the alterna brought me back to the area, but it is the area itself which keeps me coming back.
JohnOH - I found a juv. trans pecos ratsnake north of van horn in '72, and did the walter houston dance over it
JohnOH - had to look it up in my field guide to find out what it was

ratrace - JOhn, what kind of set up do you recommond for the grey bands??? For display purposes
ratrace - natural as possible
JohnOH - they are desert crevice dwellers, rat. also totally nocturnal
JohnOH - dirt substrate and layered thin rocks with spaces to hide
JohnOH - they do like a nice tight spot to hide
ratrace - what about night time light to observe them?? what color do you recommond
JohnOH - a few small cacti for decoration is nice
JohnOH - they usually head for cover when a light goes on, so i'd have to say red only

matt2 -anyone here not seen John's site yet?
JohnOH - LTC will usually feed during the day, but I prefer to feed them at night
matt2 -post the url if ya like, John
JohnOH - http://www.herpo.com/trans-pecos, and I'll be speaking on the herps of the area at IHS in St. Louis in July

matt2 -my turn: have ya caught any mex. milks yet, John
JohnOH - this year? no
matt2 -they're the hardest to find?
JohnOH - they are found in Val Verde county, but are nowhere common there. for annulata, head to south texas in april/may
JohnOH - I've probably found 10 times as many alterna as annulata

bikeburner - where do you find the sock head desart kings at
JohnOH - I like the ones from around soccorro NM, but find them around van horn, marfa also

EricW - Do you find a considerable difference in apperance of lepidus in different areas, counties? If so, which are some areas that you can find nice lepidus?
JohnOH - the lepidus in the eastern part of the range - hill country, val verde county, terrell county, are the light gray ones
JohnOH - in the western part they tend to be more variable in coloration. the ones in the davis mts vary from area to area, the ones in the quitmans and eagles are brown/pinkish/orangeish usually
EricW - Do you find them to be good captives?
JohnOH - yes, never brought home a lepidus which didn't do well, and they settle down fairly well
JohnOH - they are one of my favorites

Gail16 - Can you use ''real'' cacti, in certain snake tanks, like the wild altera's you catch out there, the cacti you buy at the flower shops?
JohnOH - yeah, just try to avoid ones with long sharp spines. even in the wild I now and then find a snake with a thron in it
JohnOH - or a thorn, even
ratrace - Great John I guess in June you'll have to point me in the right direction!!! What do they feed on mice or rats maybe a lizard you would recommond.......

ratrace - oh and what date are you going to be in St. Louis???
JohnOH - for what?
ratrace - grey bands
JohnOH - july 18-21 in st. louis, I don't know what day I'll be speaking
ratrace - ahhhh meet ya at the black Jack table :)
JohnOH - once in a while I have a wc alterna that won't readily go onto lab rodents, but not often. seems to be mainly the yearlings
JohnOH - but I've put in pocket mice with freshly caught ones and they readily take them
JohnOH - main thing with alterna is offer them smaller food than you would other species of the same size, at least until they acclimate.
ratrace - ok great John thanks
JohnOH - it isn't unusual for a wc alterna to be scared by too large a live meal

matt2 -John would ya say River Road is the one area one would most likely need to be alert ie probs etc
JohnOH - river road is all curves and hills, requires concentration. you get locals driving the road also, often after a night of drinking, so you need to be very alert
matt2 -and bad guys?
JohnOH - and there are no shoulders, no place to pull off, so you also have to be very fast
JohnOH - Redford is a drug town, everyone there makes at least SOME money off the drug trade
bikeburner - last question for me john
JohnOH - and there are also feds there. it is rather spooky to have a couple guys wearing mickey mouse t-shirts jump out in front of you and point automatic weapons at you

bikeburner - what is your best and favorite catch in the area
JohnOH - oh, my. bad question. I have many animals I've found which I still remember fondly. and many unusual circumstances under which they were caught
JohnOH - with many of the more highly sought animals, it is usually a "BINGO" surprise to see one
JohnOH - since you can look for a week and see nothing but "trash snakes" and then WHAM, there it is and you aren't sure if you aren't hallucinating

EricW - What rattlers tend to be the best to capture out west for a beginner? What makes them good for beginner herpers that plan on collecting?
JohnOH - well, we can rule out scutulatus or large atrox
JohnOH - lepidus are great animals, small, acclimate well
EricW - aggressive?
JohnOH - molossus are OK if you find them under 2.5 ft. the larger ones are about 50% non feeders in captivity
JohnOH - the molossus are probably the most laid back of the venomous in the area

CDEEJAY - Hollister you the bomb in phantoms tell the story of the alterna in your pants
JohnOH - nah, that has to be done live and in person, doug

bikeburner - you remember that screaming dark phase you caught west of langtry
JohnOH - which one? I've caught several
bikeburner - bright orange blotches
JohnOH - if you mean the 34" one from 8.5 west of chamberlains, no, don't remember it
JohnOH - I can look at my notes and tell you about every alterna I've found
JohnOH - I can also show you the exact location within inches for most of them

bikeburner - yes well john got to run..thank you for chatting
JohnOH - adios, eddy. welcome back to the world
matt2 -folks, ya can ask a question and a followup if ya like, just type followup so I know
ratrace - I personally like the story about the rocks falling
matt2 -(he had some sweet words for you too)

Reptile_Mike - Hello John, this may be a stupid question,, have u ever tried 2 breed osoleta x Transpecos.and what would neonates look like??ive always wonderd about this
JohnOH - I left a 5. gal can of gas outside my motel room in Comstock one night. eddy ran short of fuel, decided to avail himself of it. he didn't know it was deisel, and he blew a smokescreen for the rest of the night
ratrace - to funny
JohnOH - they shouldn't breed, mike. the subocularis has 2 more chromosomes than other ratsnakes in the area

SirRandal - John, ever catch alterna in the daytime? Flipping rocks, etc?
JohnOH - no, randal. I heard of one being found last february in the Davis Mts. by ranch hands moving a pile of construction rocks
JohnOH - and I know to guys from Germany who found a pair breeding in a crevice on a warm overcast afternoon
JohnOH - but for the most part they abhor light
JohnOH - guy from PA found one shortly after sunrise when he was calling his wife from a pay phone, snake going across the parking lot in Comstock.

TimJ - are you gonna find me more rattlers than you found nias when i'm over? ;)
JohnOH - oh, are you coming over? and am I supposed to take you herping?
TimJ - hahaha
TimJ - not for a while yet
JohnOH - I hope so, that was a disaster, but they came in late july, which isn't the best time
TimJ - i'll probably come for a few months, and try and see as many herping states as possible
JohnOH - Idaho is good, so I hear
JohnOH - randal, do you have wright and wright 2 vol? if so, read the type locality for pictigaster. very good description
SirRandal - I got it John
SirRandal - Yep
JohnOH - I read it, saw a spot that fit it perfectly, and found a mass of them
JohnOH - 6 in 15 minutes
JohnOH - exciting

matt2 -over the years, John, have you observed if there's a elevation to finding alterna..ie have you found more near top of cuts, middle or bottom road?
matt2 -or on road
JohnOH - no, matt, however the adult females are usually at the top or bottom
JohnOH - otherwise I've found them everywhere. many of the snakes out there are excellent climbers, particularly subocs, alterna, bairdi
JohnOH - I've seen them on the ground and 60 ft. up and in between
matt2 -where have you found the most cuts, top/bottom, middle or road
JohnOH - ???
JohnOH - most of the cuts are by the highway
matt2 -alterna..hcich of those
matt2 -which
JohnOH - well, given that most of the cuts are 10' or less, take your pick.
JohnOH - I've found them all over, probably half on the road, but females are more common on the cuts
JohnOH - you can also find them crawlign on top of or in front of cuts
matt2 -I misstyped: meat: of those areas, have you found the most alterna on roads, bottom, middle or top of cuts
JohnOH - I see many cruising the cuts, going into a crevice looking for a meal, then coming out and continuing the hunt
JohnOH - if is mixed, matt. I've also field collected some
JohnOH - main thing with alterna, particularly east of the bend, is wind and barometer
JohnOH - they prefer a SE wind 10-20 mph
JohnOH - if it is a calm night, go look for annulata

EricW - How do Trans Pecos copperheads acclimate in captivity? how do you suggest capturing them since they don't hook well or can't pin?
JohnOH - I use hot dog tongs or my 30" whitney tongs on copperheads. another good way is to just pin where you can, put a gallon jug over their head, loose the hook and slam on the lid
JohnOH - they are whippy fast snakes which DO NOT like being handled
JohnOH - they do OK in captivity though, but don't really settle down that much

Reptile_Mike - What is ur fav.morph of trans pecos??????
JohnOH - trans pecos ratsnake?
Reptile_Mike - yeah
JohnOH - I like the normals, but the platinums are beautiful. I've seen all but one of the WC albinos, and they don't impress me that much
Reptile_Mike - i like the platinums 2
JohnOH - but then, few albinos do impress me
Reptile_Mike - lol
Reptile_Mike - i finished
JohnOH - (unless I catch them)

TimJ - Any idea on the specific reasons why suboc was changed to Bogertophis? do you agree? I guess if it was DNA related you can't argue lol.
JohnOH - it has 2 more chromosomes than other Elaphe, has certain morphological differences too
JohnOH - I agree that it didn't belong in Elaphe
TimJ - right
TimJ - cool
TimJ - but then you look at asian rats VS. american rats, and they certainly don't belong in the same genus
TimJ - in many cases
JohnOH - oh, well, I leave that to the people who don't work with them, just study them
JohnOH - ask a taxonomist to tell you useful information on a species, he won't be able to

matt2 -welp, we're up on the hour John, wanna continue on for an addional half (ya have nothing else to do)
JohnOH - I don't care, I'm up for it, until Leno

matt2 -ok, my turn: altho we know of herp'n laws in mex, do ya know if any u.s. herpers have tried anyway
matt2 -just across the border for alterna and if so any better luck
JohnOH - you mean recently? yes, I know some who have gone to mexico recently, under permits, and they were glad to make it home alive
JohnOH - you have rurales and federales, who are generally uneducated and carry weapons, and many dope growers who don't like strangers
matt2 -I bet, did they notice much better herp'n results ie no cometeion
JohnOH - not really. mexico has never been heavily herped
matt2 -competeion
JohnOH - the main problem in mexico is lack of ethics. slash and burn, pollution, no sewage systems worth squat, pump the effluent into rivers, etc

Reptile_Mike - do u ever mess with the Gutta family, if so whats ur fav. morph???
JohnOH - I have caught most of the gutatta, but emoryi is the only one in this area
JohnOH - I like a good natural cornsnake from homestead for the jersey pine barrens, and SE NC has some awesome tangerine ones

TimJ - what is the average percentage of venomous to non venomous snakes that you find in the TP?
JohnOH - beats me, and also varies night by night and depends on what area
TimJ - fair enough
TimJ - generalise then
TimJ - lots more vens, lots more non vens...or similar amounts?
JohnOH - the most commonly seens species are glossy, longnose, night snakes, diamondbacks and scutulatus, viridis in some areas

matt2 -is there one snake in the T.P. ya haven't yet cuaght but really want to or the U.S. for that matter
TimJ - cool
JohnOH - right now if you went out it would be mostly atrox
JohnOH - I can't think of any I haven't caught in the trans pecos, plenty in the US
matt2 -any particular one above all
JohnOH - NB - i probably have the ONLY captive breeding on devil's river blackheaded snake - interesting species with a very specific diet of giant centipedes
JohnOH - I always enjoy snakes with color, so like finding corals, tricolors
JohnOH - but almost anything is a joy. however 3 nights of finding only atrox, glossy and longnose gets old fast

Reptile_Mike - I live in Cleveland county, nc,and i normally find real dark normals corns, but still looking....!!!!!
JohnOH - eric, do you have a vehicle worthy of a trip west this summer?
JohnOH - don't know cleveland county
EricW - maybe....if I can fix it :)
Reptile_Mike - bout 2 hours south of raliegh
JohnOH - but I saw a guy in Kinston with an awesome large tangerine corn. he would say only that it was found in SE NC
JohnOH - so I assume the wilmington area
Reptile_Mike - close
JohnOH - I don't usually freak out on a corn unless I've found it in the wild, but that one freaked me

TimJ - have you done much herping overseas? if not.....do ya wanna?
JohnOH - matt, they need you in Palestine
JohnOH - not since 1969. I've herped the caribbean and trinidad, had a blast
Reptile_Mike - thanks John, later all
JohnOH - I leave the jungles to the younger generation
TimJ - fair enough
TimJ - weren't you talking about oz
TimJ - at one stage
JohnOH - I'm more of a beach type now
TimJ - coming out with the IHS maybe?
TimJ - assumed you would do a little herping if that were the case
JohnOH - yeah, but Oz isn't much different from US for herping. hit the roads, walk a bit
TimJ - depends where you are....but in most places, true
NickAsher - where i live herping sucks

matt2 -bout how far west do the pigs range?
JohnOH - for sure. I wouldn't dream of going to Oz without SOME herping. of course, I hear that aussie women all want to "do a yank" so I might be kept busy
TimJ - of course, you can roadcruise tropical asia too....if you can find any roads, lol
TimJ - hahahaha
JohnOH - pigs?
matt2 -pigmys
JohnOH - javalena or wild boar?
TimJ - whoever told you that is grossly misinformed!
JohnOH - they go into AZ, matt
matt2 -so they are also found in the T.P.?
JohnOH - but no pigmies are found in the trans pecos
matt2 -ok
JohnOH - they are found in crane county, though
JohnOH - matt, you should consider heading to crane/upton counties in a couple weeks

TimJ - are any of the snakes in TP "dangerous"?
JohnOH - hmm, I have many deep and insightful answers left
matt2 -beautiful days here last 2..Monday woulda been but super dust storm
JohnOH - the ones 25 ft. up on a crumbling rock cut, tim
matt2 -when will start herp'n your area John
matt2 -and for?
TimJ - don't you hate when you focus a photo at night, turn the torch away...hear a rustling, click......turn the torch on and you just took a photo of nothing
TimJ - painted bullfrogs are faster than they look
JohnOH - matt, I could probably find snakes now, but it isn't worth the trouble. I usually start hoping in april
JohnOH - I really should go rock flipping for tricolors this week
matt2 -I tried last night if only due to Connection refused on here all night
matt2 -my turn: John do ya find many tri-colors by you
JohnOH - when I lived in alpine we had a total power failure during a heavy storm, so I drove a 90-100 mile triangle from alpine to marfa to ft. davis to alpine, and saw an amazing number of amphibs and insects
JohnOH - I also found the first chirping frogs from the davis mts
JohnOH - no, matt, found 2 DOR, none live

PitViper - This is the littlest guest chat
JohnOH - ok, been a pleasure. thank you for coming.
TimJ - no worries
TimJ - thanks for being a guest and all that :)

matt2 -ok, welp, on behalf of Kingsnake JeffB and myself..thanks so much John for taking of your time tonight
JohnOH - mah pleasure
JohnOH - guess we need speakers who can speak on morphs and mutts.
JohnOH - given that 90% of the kids who hit the chats have probably never herped
matt2 -maybe we can get ya for dec chatweek
TimJ - yeah
TimJ - but field herping is much more interesting
TimJ - than morphs
TimJ - so keep up the good work!
JohnOH - and the trans pecos isn't an area available to most
JohnOH - well, let's close down this bistro and go home
JohnOH - bye bye