Reptile & Amphibian News Blog
Keep up with news and features of interest to the reptile and amphibian community on the kingsnake.com blog. We cover breaking stories from the mainstream and scientific media, user-submitted photos and videos, and feature articles and photos by Jeff Barringer, Richard Bartlett, and other herpetologists and herpetoculturists.
Friday, December 31 2010
Other than dry goods, everything for sale on kingsnake.com is illegal somewhere. Reptile and amphibian laws, codes, and ordinances exist at international, federal,state, and local levels. Heck, some neighborhood associations even ban them in their covenants. But it hasn't always been this way. And snakes didn't always come in deli cups.
Jennie Erin Smith's "Stolen World: A Tale Of Reptile, Smugglers, and Skulduggery" is a fascinating read that I found both hard to put down, and hard to pick back up again when I did. I can't put it down because it reads like a Ludlum novel, but I am afraid to pick it back up again because many of the stories she relates make me cringe.
Back in the days before the internet, before captive breeding, before the word "herpetoculture" existed, and before most of the laws and regulations about reptiles and amphibians were even proposals, there were the snake men. Reptile cowboys who strapped on the boots, jumped in the swamp and wrestled the python into a bag, or a cobra, or a krait, or a mamba.
Those men would fly around the world, collect the animals, box them up, put them on a plane, and the animals they acquired would show up at the world's biggest zoos, or in the hands of the few private collectors of the time. It was a loose group of people who maintained their own "internet" based on phone calls, letters, and the occasional mailed price list. There were no reptile expos, no magazines, no clubs, and few organizations open to non-academics.
Continue reading "Book Review: Stolen World: A Tale Of Reptile, Smugglers, and Skulduggery"
Thursday, December 30 2010
Having lived through more than 170 bites from a variety of venomous snakes, Bill Haast can only be described as a medical miracle.
The former head of the Miami Serpentarium, Bill grew up in a different era. There was no real research into antivenom and medical uses, but Bill saw through this lack of information. Inspired by comparison of Polio's nerve effects and that of a cobra bite, he had a dream to cure the disease with cobra venom. Progress was being made, but research halted with the vaccine release.
The question of Bill's use of self-immunization is a hot one. But no matter what side of the fence you stand on, the fact that transfusions of his blood helping snake bite victims can not be overlooked. In his heyday, he was flown to donate blood to snake bite victims and saved many a life.
Controversies aside, Bill is still an inspiration to many, from visitors to the Serpentarium to a child in the Midwest who got a gift from someone Bill knew from the war, to the folks at Venom 1. More stories can be read on both his facebook fan page and Dan Boyd's PBase site, and basically every reptile site around today.
Bill is someone who inspires with his passion for doing what he lives, standing by what choices he made and showing no regret for how he lived. Happy Birthday, Bill. I have never met you, but will raise a toast in your honor today.
Continue reading "100 years and kicking: Happy Birthday, Bill Haast"
Wednesday, December 29 2010
In an effort to protect Brazilian wildlife diversity and resources, including many reptiles, the nation plans to stop companies that produce products using their rare animals without compensation.
From ABCNews.com:
Brazil has levied more than 100 million reais ($59 million) in fines since July on companies charged with not paying fair compensation for the use of genetic material native to Brazil, said Bruno Barbosa, who heads inspection for the environmental oversight agency Ibama.
Next year, officials will begin pursuing companies that did not notify the government of their use of local species to create products such as pharmaceuticals, as required by law, meaning fines will likely go up.
[....]
Barbosa says examples of biopiracy abound, such as the development in the 1970s of the hypertension medication captopril from a snake venom that indigenous groups used on arrowhead tips.
Pharmaceuticals companies also used the yellow-and-green Kambo frog, found in Brazil's Amazon state of Acre, to create anti-inflammatory drugs without distributing benefits to local residents, he said. Many of these incidents came before a 2001 decree that created the current rules governing species use.
While some may feel the laws are overly restrictive, this measure may result in the preservation of what's left of Brazil's native flora and fauna.
Tuesday, December 28 2010
News reporters like to make much ado about a venomous snake bite, be it a native or exotic species, but Janaki Lenin has her own take. Of course she also shares it with her husband Rom Whitaker of the Madras Croc Bank.
From The Hindu:
If a snake catcher gets bitten by a venomous snake, it is his own fault. He was careless, most probably trying to show off, and wasn't paying attention. That was the motto of Rom and his snake-hunting buddies in the U.S. during the 1960s, and it still holds to this day. In keeping with that philosophy, anyone who got bit was teased mercilessly. (Non-snake hunting civilians bitten accidentally were exempt, of course.) There is no doubt that this tradition of peer-admonition has kept these men, most of them, alive to this day.
In India, however, numerous snake-catchers, invariably young men, brag about their various snakebite “exploits”.
One bright spark bagged a cobra in a flimsy translucent bag. When he moved in closer to knot it, the snake nailed him on the hand through the cloth.
He was in hospital for a few days, and in the Indian tradition, the entire neighbourhood visited him to express their concern. Basking in all this attention, our man never once paused to think why the incident had occurred. When he bragged about it numerous times, Rom asked him: “Whose fault was it?” The young man didn't seem sure, but it was certainly not his fault, he declared. Rom countered: “If you had used a proper bag to begin with you wouldn't have been bit, right? So tell me now whose fault was it?” The reply was silence.
The blame lies with the keeper. In this day and age, however. one careless keeper can spark problems for 100 good keepers. Please be careful; I agree with Janaki that we do not need more Darwin Award winners.
Monday, December 27 2010
When the Gulf Restoration Network and Center for Biological Diversity threatened legal action earlier this year, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service stepped forward with a proposal to save the Mississippi Gopher Frog, to the tune of around $100,000.
From the Associated Press:
Most of the land is owned by the federal government; 96 acres are owned by the state and 470 acres are privately owned.
Mississippi gopher frogs once lived in longleaf pine forests from western Alabama to southeast Louisiana. Timbering all but eradicated those forests.
They now live in only a few spots in south Mississippi.
Scientists believe fewer than 100 mature adults live in the wild. Five zoos — in Detroit, New Orleans, Memphis, Miami and Omaha, Nebraska — have been breeding or raising them.
If this impacts you, the agency is taking comments until January 11, 2011.
Sunday, December 26 2010
Israeli airplanes are causing an unnatural mating season for crocs.
From Treehugger.com:
While the animals may very well be delighted that love seems to be in the air more than usual lately, crocodile handler David Golan believes the jet inspired drive to matie is cause for concern. The crocs, which normally perform mating rituals in a particular part of the year, are having their biological clocks thrown off by all the unnatural noise.
To make matters worse, the crocodiles are none the more satisfied by the mating call confusion. The crocs have been observed bellowing back their own song, but for some reason they never seem to partner up with any mate -- as if it's just the jet overhead that has won them over, though it never ceases to play hard-to-get.
The good news is that this is a nursery and not wild animals, but it also makes you wonder what might be happening to other species.
After the bump, video from St. Augustine when I visited this summer and the gators were calling!
Continue reading "Sonic boom romance for crocs"
Friday, December 24 2010
Researchers are floored by the pH levels in the springs in Steve Irwin Wildlife Reserve, located along the Wenlock River in Cairns, Australia.
There, the rain has made lakes so acidic, native fish can no longer tolerate the water.
The scientists, however, have suggested animals and plants living in the natural springs have adapted to the toxic conditions.
Exactly how, though, remains unexplained, according to UQ team leader Prof Craig Franklin.
"Would I swim in it? I wouldn’t drink it, let’s put it that way," Prof Franklin told The Cairns Post.
The springs flow into the Wenlock River.
Researchers had observed many of the saltwater crocodiles in the Wenlock with stained and weak-looking teeth.
Prof Franklin said this may be related to the acidic spring water.
To read the full article, click here.
Thursday, December 23 2010
An insurance company in Shawno, Wisc., wants to hire alligators as sales reps. From Fox11:
The classified ad is titled "Alligators." It starts out saying "two weeks ago we found one alligator. We're still looking for two more alligators to fill the two positions that are open." The ad goes on several more lines but closes asking interested applicants to call Mr. Alligator.
“It's something to catch people's eyes,” said Peebles. “The actual ad I didn't write. I don't want to take credit for that, but it's kind of funny.”
“Someone asked me, 'is Mr. Alligator there?' and I was pretty shocked,” said Jeremy Peebles, Dan’s son and an agent at the insurance company. “I thought it was a prank at first because they never told me about it.”
Here I got all excited that some of our rescue animals could pay their own way in an insurance advertisement. Alas, the description of alligators in the ad was actually probably the most benign I have ever seen, "semi-obnoxious and pushy." I spose that I can live with.
Monday, December 20 2010
In 2011 kingsnake.com will be giving our entire classified system an overhaul and we want you to help! - What features do you want?
- What would you like to be able to do that you can't do now?
- What would you like to see changed?
Whether you're a classified account holder or a power shopper, we want to hear from you!
Give us your input about the rules, the software, how your ads look, or anything else to do with the classifieds -- we want to hear what you have to say.
Post your ideas here, or send us an email and let us know what you'd like to see in the new classifieds.
Happy New Year, and happy new classifieds from kingsnake.com!
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UPDATE: - We are getting some great suggestions!
Please make sure to mention suggestions others have already made so we can get an idea how many people would like to see those features.
While some of these would be difficult to implement without causing problems (i.e. unlimited ads would allow retailers to post page after page of ads every day, making hobbyist ads run off the front page in minutes rather than hours or days), others are relatively easy to implement into our current systems as they are based on technology or policy issues that are no longer relevant today as opposed to 1997 when some of these policies and systems were implemented.
Expect to see some of your suggestions implemented in January, with a full overhaul sometime in March. Keep those suggestions coming!
Thursday, December 16 2010
A federal judge ruled that a U.S. Fish and Wildlife study on protection of the Delta Smelt was "sloppy science" -- the same thing we've been saying about their justification for trying to restrict interstate trade of pythons and boas.
From NYTimes.com:
"The public cannot afford sloppy science and uni-directional prescriptions that ignore California's water needs," the judge wrote, adding that the state Legislature had failed "to provide the means to assure an adequate water supply for both the humans and the species dependent on the delta."
Moreover, in a remarkable side note that cuts to the heart of the many stresses in the Northern California region, Wanger appeared to suggest he does not see a legal avenue for finding a solution for the many interests, farms, wildlife and urban consumers that rely on the delta's water.
"The law alone cannot afford protection to all the competing interests at stake in these cases," Wanger said.
He pushed the study back into the hands of U.S. Fish and Wildlife, who say it may take up to 9 months to edit and recompile the data.
This is something very important to all in the herp community, because it is a battle we may yet need to wage. With the push to pass S373 through during the lame duck congress, we need to be prepared for future battles.
A CareerBuilder survey run by Harris Poll shows we herpers are in the big money.
The study broke down all demographics of pet owners and what they more likely do for a living and earn. From CareerBuilder:
Key findings include:
Workers with dogs were more likely to report holding senior management positions (CEO, CFO, Senior Vice President, etc)
Workers with snakes/reptiles were the most likely to report earning six figures.
Workers with birds were the most likely to report being satisfied with their jobs.
In terms of career paths, owners of certain pets were more likely to report being drawn to certain professions:
Dog owners were more likely to be professors, nurses, information technology professionals, military professionals and entertainers
Cat owners were more likely to be physicians, real estate agents, science/medical lab technicians, machine operators and personal caretakers
Fish owners were more likely to be human resources professionals, financial professionals, hotel and leisure professionals, farming/fishing/forestry professionals and transportation professionals
Bird owners were more likely to be advertising professionals, sales representatives, construction workers and administrative professionals
Snake/Reptile owners were more likely to be engineers, social workers, marketing/public relations professionals, editors/writers and police officers
Oddly enough, I was part of the Harris Poll pooling group and I participated in this survey, but at last check I didnt make a six-figure pay check. Umm, yeah, Jeff; can we talk?
Wednesday, December 15 2010
Every year I have the same discussion with at least one person: "What do you do with those animals when people come over?"
Thankfully my husband and I work odd hours. We usually do not entertain a whole lot, but when we do, they are folks who either like our dogs and reptiles or at least understand why we have them. My mother-in-law is still a bit nervous to hit the bathroom, usually asking if anything is in there before she enters. (She happened to pop over once just after I got in from Animal Control, and the wiggling bag in the sink bothered her.)
I am a reptile person, so yes, you may well find a frozen rodent in my fridge, along with a huge array of veggies. I have a chest freezer, but I do tend to keep some items upstairs for easy access. Much as in this discussion on our forums, it happens in my world. And my house is my world.
My house isnt teeming with snakes rolling around the floor, but even in the best of times, you will find proof they live there. The excess pillowcases on my couch, ready for a run to pick up the next rescue; feeders in my freezer; possibly a snake in quarantine in my bathroom. But I go so far as allowing my dogs on the couch as well! My cat, well, he eats on the kitchen table because it is one place I can make sure he, and not the dogs, gets his food.
So each year, when the discussion arises, I proclaim proudly, "My house is that of a proud animal owner. If folks don't like animals, they really wouldn't like my house." How do holidays go for other herp keepers?
kingsnake.com BFF Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry is still playing with his goannas, but now he is learning that the venom of the big daddy monitor lizard, the Komodo Dragon, may play a very important role in helping with heart disease.
From Australian Geographic:
FROM THE DEEPEST REACHES of the Australian desert to the cloud forests of Mexico, the University of Melbourne's Dr Bryan Fry has been on the trail of a group of lizards - and, more specifically, their venom.
One of the key results of his team's study of so-called 'anguimorphs' - which include monitor lizards and the komodo dragon - is the discovery of three toxins that lower blood pressure. The team hopes this could one day lead to new drugs to treat people.
It was only four years ago that the same international team reported finding that venom is widespread in lizards, not restricted to a few species, as had been thought. In a bid to find out more, the researchers extracted and analysed venom from 23 different lizards.
One side note that Bryan has always stressed is there is a vast difference in venoms and many are not considered medically significant. However for heart patients, Komodos may save your future.
Continue reading "Healing lizards: Regeneration and the heart"
Tuesday, December 14 2010
The most important item in your snake bite emergency kit may well be your cell phone. In a recent medical journal article, Dr. Cyrus Rangan, director of toxics and epidemiology at the Los Angeles County Department of Health Services, tells snake bite victims to skip icing, tourniquets, sucking venom and all the other old wives' tales. A call to 911 will be your best bet.
In women, such bites are mostly on the foot, the result of accidentally stepping on or near the snake. "Ninety percent of the time men get bitten on the hand because they're doing something dumb," said Dr. Rangan. He told the story of a man who kissed a rattler on the mouth – and got bitten – in two separate incidents.
[....]
Besides calling a pharmacy to make sure it has the appropriate antivenom in stock, Dr. Rangan said, appropriate first aid includes immobilizing the patient and elevating the bitten extremity above the heart.
[....]
Surgical intervention is rarely needed. Some necrotic tissue debridement might be called for, but fasciotomy is rarely indicated and is the largest contributor to comorbidity, he added.
For the full article, click here.
I'm interested to hear what the experts in treating these injuries say. I know the Florida Snakebite Institute is very vocally against fasciotomy.
Sunday, December 12 2010
When I think of salamanders, I think dark caves, deep burrows and mud. But apparently they are more in touch with the sun than previously thought.
The Common Spotted Salamander has been discovered to be the first photosynthetic vertebrate, a title previously left to plant life, bacteria and a few inverts. From MNN.com:
t turns out that researchers just weren't looking closely enough. While studying a batch of salamander embryos, scientist Ryan Kerney of Dalhousie University saw something different than the prevailing dogma would suggest — a bright green color coming from inside their cells.
That color usually indicates the presence of chlorophyll, which is the light-absorbing green pigment that makes photosynthesis possible.
"On a lark, I decided to take a long-exposure fluorescent image of a pre-hatchling salamander embryo," said Kerney. After backing that experiment up using transmission electron microscopy, he confirmed his suspicion. There were algal symbionts located inside the salamander cells.
In fact, the symbiotic partners were often found bordering mitochondria, organelles responsible for generating a cell's energy. Thus, it's likely that the mitochondria were taking direct advantage of the oxygen and carbohydrate, byproducts of photosynthesis that were generated by the algae.
To read the full article, click here.
Friday, December 10 2010
Regulars to our chats and forums know Vegasbilly for his love of rear-fanged snakes and hitting the field when out working. When I was out in Vegas, who better to meet than Billy himself, and his group of critters?
Now I had an additional reason to visit. I was going through dog withdrawal. My senior bulldog is not doing well, and I just needed some fur to help the homesick blues. I got to see Billy's Scrubs, who were both in shed, so there are no pics.
Bill has such an excitement for his reptiles. He shared stories about each one and where it came from. His desire to herp and stories about catching just the perfect time were infectious. Des and I were almost late for our dinner date, we were having so much fun. I do thank him for having us in his reptile room, much like myself, we maneuver in such a small area but make the most of the space allotted. It was especially nice to get a chance to see the herps since Billy had been out of town for the week on work before we got there. It can be hard while getting things ready for their winter nap and rearranging the room to have guests over.
Oh, yeah, and Billy? I remember herper rules, I won't tell the wife on ya!
After the bump, herp photos. I just couldn't resist leading in with his hunk of an American Bulldog.
Continue reading "A visit with Vegasbilly"
Thursday, December 9 2010
When I went to Vegas to speak there were only two touristy things I wanted to do. Watch the water show at Bellagio and hit the Shark Reef at Mandalay Bay. I fell in love with the water show during my honeymoon (to the point of insanity with my new husband) and we missed the reef when we were out there.
Both items checked off, I was a happy girl. But what is even cooler is we got a behind the scenes tour to boot! When Desiree Wong and I were preparing to go in the morning she said the magic words "I think they have a Komodo," thus launching me off into a new form of Tourette's where the only word from my mouth was "Komodo." It probably didn't help that our hotel coffee shop at the bottom of the stairs was closed and I had to stand in a gawd awful long line at the Starbucks, causing me to double up on our order. Thankfully I grabbed breakfast for us with the coffee and we were set. Desiree was just happy the coffee fairy had arrived.
On the tram ride over, I had flashbacks to my favorite Discovery show, “Dirty Jobs,” where Mike Rowe was trapped in the traps banging his head repeatedly while cleaning. Yep, I was gonna see what Mike cleaned.
Continue reading "Behind the scenes at Mandalay Bay"
Wednesday, December 8 2010
Staten Island Zoo used to have the most complete rattlesnake collection in the world, but times changed and they lost the title. Now a change is in the works to regain that title, and in doing so they are putting safety first.
From the NY Daily News:
Once home to the most complete rattlesnake collection in the world, the zoo is trying to make a comeback one slithery reptile at a time.
And for every new species it acquires, it must have the right anti-venom - costly but essential should anyone be bitten by the deadly creatures.
"This vial alone was over $1,000," said Matt Lanier, who manages the zoo's snake collection, holding a tiny bottle of white powder.
It can take more than two dozen vials to counteract a bad bite - and the antidote must be administered within minutes.
There are alarm buttons between every padlocked exhibit, and a lightup panel shows which one was hit so staffers can secure the snake and grab the right antidote.
Car keys hang from magnets on the fridge door, ready for a dash to Richmond University Medical Center - which sent staffers to tour the zoo.
"From the time I hit that alarm button we are at the door to the emergency room in under seven minutes," Lanier said.
Very cool that they are planning for safety first, but even cooler that they are building the collection again. If a member pops out I would love to see photos.
Sunday, December 5 2010
In Daytona this year, Kim Foose talked me into actually putting myself forward to talk about the women in the reptile community.
I have blogged already about preparing the talk, reaching out to folks on the site for their feedback on how things were for them, coming up and getting started. I researched women historically and interviewed many women currently working in the field. I was still a total ball of nerves when it came time to actually give a talk on the subject, this time to the Southern Nevada Herp Society in Las Vegas. (An audio of my talk will be available soon for those who can't believe I finally pulled it off)
I sit on the board of directors of the Chicago Herp Society, and it was great to see another group in action. Kim and Ken are really big driving forces of the organization and are really reaching out. My favorite of their programs is the Junior Herpers Club. It touches the same topics most herp societies do, but is specifically aimed at training and grooming kids. How cool is that?
The holiday meeting was much like the Chicago Herp Society's, featuring a potluck party with a fabu raffle. Tickets were sold for big items, and then those were tossed into a large bag for smaller fun things. Ken Foose was the raffle ring leader and amused everyone present.
But I'm leaving out that they did it only the way Vegas can. Yep, they had a showgirl, or more appropriately a belly dancer,who has performed all over Vegas. That's right, Neferteri the Snake Goddess joined us along with her albino green Burmese, Seiti. Of course we have video of that coming, too.
I enjoyed meeting all the folks out there, who were kind and welcoming. I'm glad to have gotten the talk out, and hope to be expanding the talk in the future.
I also can't thank Desiree Wong enough for doing my PowerPoint presentation. I am not familiar with that program, and I am so pleased to have had her in my corner. Also, good luck to the new board of the Southern Nevada Herp Society! Hope you have a great year!
And of course, photos after the bump!
Continue reading "Talking women in herps with the Southern Nevada Herp Society"
The most unusual of the Crocodilian group is gaining a foothold on their native lands. The wild Gharial is making a comeback in a big way.
From the Times of India:
They have been spotted in numbers that are larger than had been expected when the reptiles were spotted after a gap of 60 years in downstream Hooghly two years ago. Now, a team of researchers has identified a breeding group at Purbasthali in Burdwan which signals that the gharials are finally multiplying.
A young gharial, about three feet in length, was trapped in a fishing net at Purbasthali on Saturday. About a half-a-dozen more followed it into the net. They were all pulled up, examined and released back into the river. "By last count, the number of gharials had shot up to around 180. Now, it seems the number is actually more than 250 since they are breeding. We have spotted even smaller ones, new-born gharials merely six inches long. This is great news for conservation since the reptile was taken to be extinct in eastern India for six decades," said Tanmoy Ghosh, president of iRebel an NGO that has been researching on gharials with support from the West Bengal Bio-Diversity Board and the Hooghly Zilla Parishad.
Gharials are some of the most Amazing animals I have ever been near. The story photo is from St. Augustine Alligator Farm this year.
To read the entire story, click here.
Friday, December 3 2010
Just because I never did well climbing the rope doesn't mean I don't find it fascinating how a snake does it. And I'm not the only one.
From Science Daily:
[University of Cincinnati] researchers sent the snakes climbing up varying widths and tensions of ropes as they explored snake movement in relation to their musculoskeletal design and variation in their environment.
They found that regardless of diameter or flexibility of the rope, the snakes alternated curving between left and right as they climbed the ropes. On the thicker ropes, they were able to move greater portions of their bodies forward as they climbed. As the ropes became thinner and more flimsy, the snakes used more of their bodies -- including their back, sides and belly -- to manipulate the rope for climbing.
"Despite the likely physical and energetic challenges, the benefits of the ability to move on narrow and compliant substrates might have large ecological implications for animals," write the authors. "Arboreal organisms must often feed or hunt in the terminal branch niche, which requires the ability to move safely on narrow and compliant substrates."
Of course, now I want to get some rope and head into the reptile room.
Fossils and dinosaurs enthrall us herpers, and they hold the key to a variety of questions -- such as, "When did fangs develop?"
Jon Mitchell, a Chicago Paleontologist has found the answer to that question. From New Scientist.com:
A SET of 200-million-year-old teeth from a beast related to dinosaurs and crocodiles has shed light on how snake fangs evolved. They support the idea that venom canals inside fangs evolved from grooves on the tooth surface.
The late Triassic reptile Uatchitodon is known only from its teeth, which resemble tall, serrated crocodile or dinosaur teeth. Several have been found, and the two youngest ones, dating from 220 million years ago, have what look like venom canals. An older set have grooves of different depths but no canals. Until now it was unknown whether the variations reflected evolutionary changes, different stages of tooth development, or even teeth from different positions in the mouth.
Yet another cool discovery on our cold-blooded friends.
Thursday, December 2 2010
Kerry King, python breeder and guitarist for the legendary thrash metal band Slayer, will stop by our chat room over the holidays while he is on a tour break and talk with kingsnake.com users about keeping and breeding carpet pythons. After a summer touring Europe with Metallica, Megadeth, and Anthrax, Kerry is finally back home and has time to work with and talk about his snakes.
An old-school reptile keeper who learned his craft from masters like Lloyd Lemke and the west coast reptile mafia of the 70s and 80s, Kerry has been a longtime kingsnake.com user and has participated in a number of special events on the site over the years. Kerry usually posts to our classifieds under his Psychotic Exotics brand when he has stock available, and even has a few posted right now.
Kerry is checking his schedule to try to squeeze in a chat with our users (hopefully before Christmas), so get your questions ready. Watch this space for firm details on a time and date, but if you can't wait that long to get your Slayer on, check out these chat transcripts and interviews from our archives:
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